Unfortunately for you, it's true
Debate what? There is no Debate.
If you’ve ever watched one of these copy paste hitjobs you know they go straight to the 4th century Nicene cope and cant stop won’t stop.
Trinity
Creation ExNihilo
Different Jesus
You’re a racist sexist bigoted xenophobic homophobe HERETIC!
Politically red pilled - Spiritually blue pilled
You don’t have to waste your time watching this borderline unwatchable video…but the title reminded me of a great interaction…
Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant.
If you claim there are two different Jesus(es) you BETTER pick the right one.
COMMENT SPARRING
HaleStorm:
This is a double edged sword. If the LDS God is more powerful, more loving, and more willing to bless his children than the creedal conception of god that has become the mainstream consensus god (which He objectively is)- then claiming they are not the same god isn’t a win those making that claim. It’s a huge L. Your Litmus test is the Nicene exclusion, not a biblical one. Its purpose was to create a 4th century cancel culture that still persists today. This wasn’t a cudgel to exclude people from the club for centuries after the Apostles died. This was hard to watch. You don’t get creation ex nihilo from Genesis 1 or John 1 without centuries of deliberation. Second temple Jewish literature back up Hebrew understanding of Genesis as describing chaotic matter being organized. You see it in Enoch, Jubilees, Dead Sea scrolls, etc. This theory of ExNihilo didn’t start until close to 200AD. Very different Jesus. Bible History repeating itself.
Creedalist Pastor:
By what standard of love and blessing are you trying to compare Yahweh with the Mormon god? If you're trying to do an internal critique of biblical Christianity, you've failed very badly; the Triune God of Scripture is infinitely more powerful and loving than the Mormon conception of God (who furthermore is a demon). Now if you're trying to do an internal critique of LDS theology, you'll find that it is internally and self-referentially incoherent, given that its extrabiblical theology contradicts the Bible it claims to adhere to. For some reason you've chosen to defend a demonically-inspired religion over against the truth of God found in the Bible, and in so doing you've made a catastrophically tremendous blunder. Repent and turn to the Lord Jesus Christ (the true one, found in the Bible, not in Mormonism), and be forgiven. If you want to debate this further, you can attempt to defend your own worldview and support of LDS theology on our next debate stream.
HaleStorm:
Christ was accused of being in league with the devil by the religious elite of his day for defying their religious narratives and incorrect traditions. The irony isn’t lost on me. What standard would we use to determine which God is greater? In the Old Testament they did it by calling down fire from the sky. How would that be measured today? If you had to cite something objective other than your strongly biased creedal theology - what would it be?
Creedalist Pastor:
This isn't hypothetical; we do this all the time. It's called an internal critique, whereby we check for internal consistency, and which test Mormonism astoundingly fails. Are you a Latter-Day Saint?
HaleStorm:
Ok but you didn't answer my question...or even your own: By what standard of love and blessing are you trying to compare Yahweh with the Mormon god? So I’ll ask again: What external, objective standard shall we use to determine which conception of God is more loving, more knowledgeable, more powerful? This should be an impactful tool — even essential — for any apologist claiming others worship the “wrong” Jesus. All we are missing is the standard(s) What are they?
Creedalist Pastor:
you're making the comparison. What's your standard? The standard is God's nature, will, and character as revealed in Scripture. Mormonism fails the internal critique. It is self-contradictory. Are you LDS?
HaleStorm: FTW
The standard would fall into the three arguments that will sound familiar if you've studied David Hume's argument on the trilemma of evil. However I am not an atheist, I am a peak Christian preaching to "less-believing" creedal Christians about God's
Omniscience
Omnipotence
Omnibenevolence
My standard would not be for evil in the world but for God's desire to exalt His children (frequently referred to as eternal life in scripture - of which Jesus said "few there be that find it") and the purpose for our creation and the crafting of God's plan of salvation.
Creedal Christians say that this gift of exaltation (as the LDS describe it) is not possible, and that's the sacrifice of a sinless and willing God (Jesus) was to give a gift of infinitely less value.
My argument is that IF such a thing as exaltation can be granted to God's children then GOd would have to be all three of those things to give it...so the creedal conception of God is either: less loving, less powerful, or less knowledgeable.
Your contention is that they are different Jesuses - If that is your truth, which Jesus would be more worthy of our worship? Its objectively the one who is the most powerful, loving, and omnisceint. IE the Mormon God. Perhaps its why they are willing to serve God at a level we don't see in rival sects.?
Next Comment
Which brings me to the more relevant standards in our day. Christ's biblical standard of knowing them by their fruits.
I'm sorry but the LDS fruit absolutely runs circles around sectarian faiths individually and at scale.
Pick any category or stat. Here are a few we can start with:
Family size and stability
Birth rates
Teen pregnancy
Drug use
life expectancy
Alcohol and smoking addiction
Humanitarian aid
MIssionary Service
Biblical literacy
Community building
Volunteer work
Growth & retention
Fulfillment of biblical prophecy
Happiness and Life satisfaction
Crime rates
Disaster response and charity work
lay clergy vs for-profit ministry (cough cough)
its peak Christianity - practiced as Jesus CHrist intended...they have receipts. Creedal christianity by contrast... is a bit of a mess.
I seem to recall that in the Bible Christ taught the opposition that good trees cannot produce bad fruit...so why are the so-called demonics looking much more Christian than the true Jesus Christians? Are these fruits not desireable? Perhaps Jesus internal critique was the problem...and not yours??
If I come on for a debate? This is what we should talk about....the trinity and creation exnihilo aren't helping churches keep their doors open or families together. Faithfully living covenants in the gospel of Jesus Christ does that. the outcomes speak for themselves.
Did I leave anything out??
Let me know if you enjoy reading the comment sections. I may start posting them more often…
-HaleStorm