Was there a Great Apostasy or No?

The bar for the Church of Jesus Christ should be so high that no man made church can reach it. The gap between them is called the Great Apostasy.

Feb 07, 2021

I’ve been seeing this a lot on Catholic Twitter - this mention of an Apostasy or a Great Apostasy. The idea that the church apostasized runs counter to the narrative that the Catholic Church was established by Jesus Christ himself…but there seems to be a vein of acceptance among Catholics today that there is a “crisis”/“infiltration”/“schism” ie Apostasy.

I am not on Twitter that often, but here are some Tweets and threads of me discussing this Apostasy with people on Twitter.

This particular thread was started by an honorable formerly gay man who was sexually assaulted/raped by gay priests as a youth and has devoted his efforts to shining light on big problems like these within the church. He has also mentioned in the past that he has to wear adult diapers as a a result of this lifestyle. Here is the thread:

Joseph Sciambra @ The Sons of St. Joseph @sonsofstjoseph

Right now, I have nothing good to say about the Catholic Church; except, its controlled by perverse and sadistic men. Those who are able to stay are either very strong or delusional; I’m neither. Unfollow me. Don’t want to be responsible for even a slight loss of faith in anyone.

One of the first responses was my least favorite cliche to excuse evil among the priesthood:

Regina McGovern @regina_mcgovern

@sonsofstjoseph Remember, the Church is full of sinners here on earth, but we don't put our faith in them. We believe in the Holy Catholic Church, founded by Christ. We have the saints to follow as guides. Despite the Judases, we stay for Christ, where else would we go for the saving Truth?

I am working on an article to counter this misguided argument, here is the summary:

HaleStorm @RealTJHale

@regina_mcgovern @sonsofstjoseph Judas was dispatched immediately and replaced. This idea that CHrist allows Judases to continue to serve in the priesthood after breaking their covenants is/was alien to the early church.

To which Joel responded about this traditionally unCatholic idea of a Great Apostasy:

Joel Morin @joelmorin

@RealTJHale @regina_mcgovern @sonsofstjoseph Ever heard of the Great Apostacy? If not, read up. It's happening right now and it's going to get even worse the next 6 months.

HaleStorm @RealTJHale

@joelmorin @regina_mcgovern @sonsofstjoseph Do you have any good recommendations for reading up on it? If it’s happening now and getting worse...when/how did it start?

Joel Morin @joelmorin

@RealTJHale @regina_mcgovern @sonsofstjoseph I'll try to round up a decent list of ideas and stuff for you to read later this afternoon. What's going on now is so intricate and deep.

He is correct. I would start with a book called…wait for it…The Great Apostasy.

Here are some more tweets on the topic. I will continue to add tweets threads to this article that add to the discussion.

YES! We have a GREAT APOSTASY

HaleStorm @RealTJHale

@joelmorin @regina_mcgovern @sonsofstjoseph Hey Joel, did you ever find any good links or reads on this. I have read many #CatholicTwitter references to the apostasy and had others claim that Matthew 16:18 means that a great apostasy is not possible.

HaleStorm @RealTJHale

@phattonez @ConflictJustice @iChanticleer I read Catholic threads about the Great Apostasy all the time. The disagreement appears to be when not if. It doesn't appear that you understand the symbolism of the stone cut without hands that fills the whole earth refers to.

Nicholas R. Nappi @nicholas_nappi

@EricRSammons There seems to be an inverse relationship between the fear of God and the fear of death. As fear of God increases, the fear of death decreases. Well, everyone seems petrified over COVID. The faith is obviously in critical condition. Is this an indicator of the Great Apostasy?

James Nugent🇮🇪 @jfnugent

@Johnthemadmonk St. Paul said there would be a falling away from the faith in the last days before Jesus returns.

Eric Sammons @EricRSammons

I’ve had it. For decades we’ve seen our bishops cover up sex abuse, *engage* in sex abuse, punish faithful priests, promote heretical priests, refuse to fight against the Leftist cultural onslaught, (1/4) https://t.co/lt9XamkMPP

My response:

HaleStorm @RealTJHale

Fascinating. Apostasy is highly distressing for the faithful. (I consider this man to be extremely faithful) Centuries of apostasy have to be deconstructed “Precept upon precept" but cannot until the person realizes & accepts that something isnt right. #hearhim

Eric Sammons @EricRSammons

El Saviento @El_Saviento

@EphremSteve @DeiMisericordia @TaylorRMarshall It started over 60 years ago.

^^Taylor Marshall had the original Tweet on this thread and I am noticing he has deleted tons of these tweets referencing the Apostasy. Not sure why, but most of the thread discussions I have from Taylor Marshall have been wiped.

HaleStorm @RealTJHale

@sav3367 @EphremSteve @DeiMisericordia Are you sure it wasn't longer ago than 60 years? The epistles were written to combat apostasy while predicting it would get worse. How do you determine when it actually started? Thoughts @TaylorRMarshall ?

El Saviento @El_Saviento

@RealTJHale @EphremSteve @DeiMisericordia @TaylorRMarshall Yes, you are correct. That's why i said "over." It started to become more obvious around 1960.

El Saviento @El_Saviento

@RealTJHale @EphremSteve @DeiMisericordia @TaylorRMarshall And Our Lady at Fatima warned about 1960. Oh but it really started almost 2000 years ago.

My response:

HaleStorm @RealTJHale

Eric Sammons @EricRSammons

Mormons believe that there was a “Great Apostasy” soon after the apostolic age, and the true faith wasn’t restored until Joseph Smith received his visions in the 19th century. How is that practically any different to how many Catholics—especially Church leaders—treat Vatican II?

My response (Pretty sure I am muted) When, Not If…

HaleStorm @RealTJHale

@EricRSammons I've been asking a similar question to Catholic Twitter since I started seeing them talk about the Great "VII" Apostasy. Mormons and Caths. seem to disagree primarily on when, not if, the apostasy has occurred.

Tangent: Someone made a joke about the Mormon “Magic Glasses” I enjoy these tweets because they don’t come from anyone who really knows their Bible. They later deleted their tweet.

HaleStorm @RealTJHale

@mea_maxima @EricRSammons Its hilarious until you realize that "magic glasses" have been a tool of seers/prophets to translate languages and receive revelations from God since the beginning of Biblical times. Here are some references to get you started. Ask your bishops if they know anyone with a set

Temple Police @temple_police

@ProtecttheFaith The greater outrage is the Apostasy of the Pope.

Jaybird @Jaybird_Mega

@EricRSammons The great apostasy

CatholicEques @CatholicaEques

@EricRSammons @FrDaveNix The event of Vatican 2 has undeniably help lead to a great apostasy. Scripture says the apostasy must happen before Jesus can return. This is a mind twister. So was V2 necessary to fulfill Providence? Above my meager brain!!!

Dr Taylor Marshall @TaylorRMarshall

Vatican recently invited Chelsea Clinton to speak. But remember: Fr Altman and @FrDaveNix and @fatherz are the ones in trouble...so open your eyes 👀 and behold the Great Apostasy. https://t.co/PdR4X9AoK8

LifeNews.com @LifeNewsHQ

Chelsea Clinton Celebrates Abortion: Killing a Baby is a “Personal Choice” https://t.co/lL4IcIkbiA https://t.co/2ShS3SRUBg

NO! Of course there is no GREAT APOSTASY

Robert Clair @RWJClair

@RealTJHale @83Varangian83 @McinellyParker @apostolaich @Jamesjimmyjimm @hankrsmith Are you claiming the whole church apostasized? That the apostles failed their mission?

Just like the username says @strivetobekind

@RealTJHale @NickSenz @FrAndrewHart @FrCorySticha But Matthew 16:18 is in direct and complete opposition to the supposition of a great apostasy.

Paisios @83Varangian83

@RealTJHale @McinellyParker @apostolaich @Jamesjimmyjimm @hankrsmith So you're saying the gates of hell prevailed?

Son Of Sobieski, Vassal of Christ the King @Ken47188750

@RealTJHale @AdesteFideles2 @chuck34120 @EricRSammons Begone!

Metanoia Faith @MetanoiaFaith

@Rene87254090 @sonsofstjoseph @TaylorRMarshall What actual apostasy are you specifically seeking to call out🤔

HaleStorm @RealTJHale

@MetanoiaFaith @Rene87254090 @sonsofstjoseph In the apostles time the church and body of Christ lifted up the people, today its the peoples job ("laitys job") to lift up the church. You contribute this reversal to something other than apostasy?

Tony Fernandez ✝️ @phattonez

@ConflictJustice @iChanticleer in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed, nor shall its sovereignty be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand for ever Daniel 2 No great apostasy

Patrick Coffin criticizing me over the idea of the Apostasy, before I complimented him for doing such a great job documenting gross apostasy. (He really did an excellent job) He deleted his account at some point.

HaleStorm @RealTJHale

@Patrick_Coffin @liraco @ZMO137 @Pontifex @Crux P.C. your Twitter feed documents gross heresy, corruption, and church apostasy daily. You see it far clearer than I do...which is why I respect and follow you. I believe the church made a major error taking the priesthood out of homes and families where it is needed most.

GATES OF HELL PREVAILING SCOREBOARD

People throw out Matthew 16:18 a lot to prove that the gates of hell CANNOT prevail against Christ’s church. “Prevail” is a process. It doesn’t happen all at once. Prominent Trad Caths are arguing that Satan is actually prevailing from inside the church. It looks like this:

HaleStorm @RealTJHale

@sonsofstjoseph Did anyone bother to make a "gates of hell have already prevailed" checklist? This is blatant apostasy.

HaleStorm @RealTJHale

@phattonez @ConflictJustice @iChanticleer Here is another one that just popped up in my feed. Faithful Catholics know something is terribly wrong. You don’t have to read the Book of Mormon (which predicts the fall of a great global gentile Church in the last days) to see what is happening. https://t.co/MsvYOPZwQQ

John Stone @Johnthemadmonk

By their fruits shall he know them.... https://t.co/AJCDSpgnwL

John Stone @Johnthemadmonk

By their fruits shall he know them....

Random Catholic ✝️🙏 @RoyWills7

@Johnthemadmonk Pure devastation.

Church Militant (Text 'CATHOLIC' to 94090) @Church_Militant

Scandal-plagued Angelo Becciu launches defamation suit for €10 million.

churchmilitant.comCardinal Sues for ‘Losing Chance to be Pope’Scandal-plagued Angelo Becciu launches defamation suit for €10 million

Eric Sammons @EricRSammons

@AllanRuhl @Catholicizm It’s a stiff battle, but I think I’d pick Benedict IX: • elected through bribery at the age of 20; • likely a homosexual; • sold the office of the papacy; and • the only man who was pope more than once (three times in his case). “A disgrace to the Chair of Peter.”

HaleStorm @RealTJHale

@AllanRuhl Anyone from 890 to ~1060 was worse than Francis... But John X-XII amd Benedict IX were probably the worst of the worst..

Not My President @ChristineNiles1

"The prelate regularly used male prostitutes — some were underage teens & some had AIDS. He put active homosexual priests in charge of the diocese, ignored others who had sex with barely legal young men & told at least one priest to embrace being 'gay.'"

churchmilitant.comFalse Shepherd, Part I: The Figure EightBp. Daniel Ryan a study in corruption, deceit and cover-up

Joseph Sciambra @ The Sons of St. Joseph @sonsofstjoseph

69% of US Catholics support gay marriage - cue a bunch of Catholics saying those people aren't real Catholics; on this issue, the Church has utterly failed.

news.gallup.comU.S. Catholics Have Backed Same-Sex Marriage Since 2011While Pope Francis’ comments supporting same sex civil unions were a drastic shift in Catholic church guidance, U.S. Catholics have supported gay marriage for about a decade.

Catholic News Agency @cnalive

Archbishop Gregory Aymond of New Orleans said Friday that a priest’s filming of a pornographic videotape atop a church’s altar was demonic, and that the altar has been burned.

catholicnewsagency.comNew Orleans archbishop: Priest’s desecration of altar ‘demonic’The Archbishop of New Orleans said Friday that a priest’s filming of a pornographic videotape atop a church’s altar was demonic, and that the priest will never again serve in Catholic ministry.

Catholic News Agency @cnalive

Since its founding in 1941, 33 priests of the #LegionariesofChrist committed sexual abuse of minors, victimizing 175 children, according to a report of an internal commission released Dec. 21.

catholicnewsagency.comLegion of Christ says 33 of its priests sexually abused minorsSince its founding in 1941, 33 priests of the Legionaries of Christ committed sexual abuse of minors, victimizing 175 children, according to a report of an internal commission released Saturday.

Joseph Sciambra @ The Sons of St. Joseph @sonsofstjoseph

If you have a child who is confused about their sexual or gender identity - DO NOT send them to a Catholic institution; if you have a child that you love - DO NOT send them to a Catholic institution -

John-Henry Westen @jhwesten

It's time to call out the Church in Germany for their apostasy.

buff.lyCdl Marx: Homosexual couples can receive ‘blessing’ from ChurchMarx said that homosexual couples can receive a blessing in the sense of a pastoral accompaniment.

Nicholas Gregoris @GregorisFr

I grew up among real alpha males, connected guys, made guys. Then I entered the Seminary thinking the Priesthood was a noble profession only to discover that priests were fairies, pedophiles, libtards, bad dressers & emasculated weaklings.

Nick Donnelly @ProtecttheFaith

Catholic Priest who said he urinated in communion wine, was attracted to satanism gets 25 years for child porn Has Bishop Christensen arranged the exorcism of Fr. Thomas Faucher? Such Satanic wickedness is a sure sign of the influence of the devil.

christianpost.comPriest who said he urinated in communion wine, was attracted to satanism gets 25 years for child pornThe Rev. W. Thomas Faucher, a retired Idaho priest, was sentenced Thursday to 25 years in prison without parole for what investigators said was the most disturbing child pornography case they had ever seen.

The Scottish Sun @ScottishSun

Boys raped by priests at Fife home in 'satanic' booze-fuelled sex parties thescottishsun.co.uk/news/scottish-…

Eric Sammons @EricRSammons

It's no secret that the Catholic Church in America is in decline—but it's far worse than most of us realize. In face of this impending collapse, I recommend that the Church engage in a strategic retreat (not a surrender!) so we can see victory later.

ericsammons.comThe Church’s Dunkirk MomentIn the face of impending collapse, the Catholic Church in America needs to consider a strategic retreat.

Church Militant (Text 'CATHOLIC' to 94090) @Church_Militant

The case of child rapist Peter Palmeri is one of the most damning indictments against the SSPX, and reveals not only horrific abuse tolerated by the Society, but also evidence of cover-up by local police. The victim has corroborated CM's reporting.

churchmilitant.comSSPX, Police Protected Child RapistThe disturbing case of Peter Palmeri

Eric Sammons @EricRSammons

The Catholic Church in America was facing a demographic collapse *before* the Age of Covid, and the Church’s reaction to the virus has only accelerated that decline. What should church leaders do in response? My latest for ⁦@CrisisMag⁩:

crisismagazine.comWill Catholics Ever Return to Mass?Faithful Catholics in America have long lamented the dreadful Mass attendance numbers of the past half century. In 1970, 55% of American Catholics attended Mass; by 2019, that number had dropped to little over 20%. It’s clear that most self-identifying Catholics don’t think it’s obligatory, or even …

Eric Sammons @EricRSammons

I’m convinced that the next 10 years will see the almost total collapse of the Catholic Church in America, even more so than the last 20 years. Catholics need to shift from trying to build up the institutional Church to engaging in rescue missions to save as many souls as we can.

katymom @debross123

@TaylorRMarshall My favorite priest always said, be certain to stay true to the faith even when the church strays.

Catholic Arena @CatholicArena

Catholic children in Loreto school in Dublin forced to listen to Muslim prayer to Allah in name of 'Prophet Muhammad' alongside priest. The priest stood in an Islamic prayer stance during the sermon and the Catholic students were also forced to listen to a reading from the Koran

HaleStorm @RealTJHale

Great thread demonstrating how the faithful cope with modern #apostasy

Nick Donnelly @ProtecttheFaith

Pope, Muslim Envoy Discuss Interfaith Shrine https://t.co/efKxvlsKhx

John Stone @Johnthemadmonk

Never, ever, forget this picture: of Catholic bishops enthroning pagan idols in the Vatican basilica. (October 2019]

Fr. John Hollowell @frjohnhollowell

“Most Catholics” also 1) don’t go to Mass every weekend 2) don’t believe the bread and wine become Christ 3) don’t tithe 4) don’t go to confession yearly 5) use contraception I wouldn’t be surprised if “Most Catholics” don’t believe in God, so this can’t be a surprise:

Pew Research Religion @PewReligion

Most white evangelical Protestants (72%) say the legalization of same-sex marriage has been a somewhat/very bad thing for U.S. society. Most Catholics (64%) say it has been a good thing: https://t.co/hDbtbp9qay https://t.co/FX9zlUAlOO

DELETED TWEETS/THREADS

HaleStorm @RealTJHale

@nicholas_nappi @EricRSammons What are you referring to? What is the Great Apostasy?

Nate @AnimateDust

@EricRSammons The Catholic world has lost its faith Eric. It’s an apostasy of great proportions.

HaleStorm @RealTJHale

@FergusFSU @Mark07179606 Paul wrote "forbidding to marry" would be a sign of the apostasy. it's ironic that in the current crisis, Francis may remove this change. Its institution (1000AD) & pending removal (202?AD) were both born out of circumstantial necessity to save the church from its own conduct.

Sara @Sara35904346

@TaylorRMarshall There is no greater apostasy than having an apostate Pope. Pope Francis is an apostate. Lord have mercy.

SCRIPTURES

HaleStorm @RealTJHale

@Silmaril_seeker @breebreebobunny Yes, the NT documents their struggle against inevitable Apostasy. Once they died the Apostasy had no authoritative counter and festered. Paul wrote about it. Peter preached about it. John wrote about it. You can not restitute what has not been lost.

HaleStorm @RealTJHale

@Silmaril_seeker @breebreebobunny John predicted that an angel would have to deliver the everlasting gospel. Revelations is a vision of the last days, so it makes sense that ~ 1800 years would pass before this angel would be sent. This wouldn’t be necessary if not for the apostasy. Pic of the angel below

HaleStorm @RealTJHale

@EricRSammons That's one of the best chapters in the NT about the #Apostasy Pay special attention to Pauls theme of the connection between inquity/unrighteousness and delusion. Wicked men lead poison the flock

THE GREAT APOSTASY

I often say Apostasy is like the setting of the sun. Light recedes slowly enough that is is barely detectable…but eventually night has come and people stumble in the darkness.

The unchanging infallible doctrines of the Lord’s church have undergone some slight modifications - which would BE FINE - if the doctrine allowed for wholesale changes, modifications, REVELATION, Capital A Apostles and Capital P Prophets.

CONCLUSION

The church is built upon the “ROCK” (priesthood which Peter had recently received - and revelation) and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. Unfortunately many people who have misinterpreted this scripture will be caught flat footed when their Church collapses. I wrote another article about how I predict this will occur in about #50 years - or two generations from now - based on current demographic decline.