I agree citing scripture almost always seems pointless when "debating" because 1.) anyone can use any scripture to justify their incorrect interpretation and 2.) like you said an appeal to the Bible just creates more interpretations & churches which 3.) necessitates a foundation of apostles and prophets to interpret scripture which implies "one faith, one baptism" and one church to do so. Tada 🎉 thus we have the importance of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Of course a Catholic (which create much juicier debates because debating with Protestants is a lower-level game) would say that their magisterium is what interprets scripture and they don't have schisms over scripture like Protestants do.
Then the conversation goes to this: is the LDS church or Catholic / Orthodox Church the one authorized by Christ to interpret scripture?
Then we'd need a discussion about who actually holds the keys of authority. We're the keys of apostleship given to Bishops or not? If not why? If so, why didn't Bishops receive general revelation anymore like the Apostles and go around building up the church by travel like the apostles? This leads to endless citing of early church fathers and discussion of how, when, who and why priesthood keys were given by the Apostles and what the scope of authority those keys were that were given.
And when the fog of centuries of time obscure the answer to that (though it's not invisible) we can always pray to God to know the truth of the Church of Jesus Christ.
If you give a mouse a cookie... He'll want a glass of milk... If you use a scripture to justify your position... You'll have to explain why priesthood keys are important ;)
Whats interesting about this particular guy is he argued that not only did priesthood authority not exist in the NT, but that Jesus' priesthood could not be given to anyone else after His death resurrection and that no one can receive the Melchizedek priesthood except Jesus.
That was his perceived KO on me and it took me a while to process.
I just posted the debate on Youtube so you can check it out.
I haven't come across this type of apostasy enough to be familiar with it... that priesthood just isn't a thing. I suppose it makes sense why that person would be a non-denom pastor. He even used D&C 84 to prove that Joseph Smith could not have possessed the priesthood because D&C says you can't see God without this priesthood. Of course he doesn't have to explain how God would give the first man on Earth the priesthood if you have to possess the priesthood to see God. good times.
I agree citing scripture almost always seems pointless when "debating" because 1.) anyone can use any scripture to justify their incorrect interpretation and 2.) like you said an appeal to the Bible just creates more interpretations & churches which 3.) necessitates a foundation of apostles and prophets to interpret scripture which implies "one faith, one baptism" and one church to do so. Tada 🎉 thus we have the importance of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Of course a Catholic (which create much juicier debates because debating with Protestants is a lower-level game) would say that their magisterium is what interprets scripture and they don't have schisms over scripture like Protestants do.
Then the conversation goes to this: is the LDS church or Catholic / Orthodox Church the one authorized by Christ to interpret scripture?
Then we'd need a discussion about who actually holds the keys of authority. We're the keys of apostleship given to Bishops or not? If not why? If so, why didn't Bishops receive general revelation anymore like the Apostles and go around building up the church by travel like the apostles? This leads to endless citing of early church fathers and discussion of how, when, who and why priesthood keys were given by the Apostles and what the scope of authority those keys were that were given.
And when the fog of centuries of time obscure the answer to that (though it's not invisible) we can always pray to God to know the truth of the Church of Jesus Christ.
If you give a mouse a cookie... He'll want a glass of milk... If you use a scripture to justify your position... You'll have to explain why priesthood keys are important ;)
Whats interesting about this particular guy is he argued that not only did priesthood authority not exist in the NT, but that Jesus' priesthood could not be given to anyone else after His death resurrection and that no one can receive the Melchizedek priesthood except Jesus.
That was his perceived KO on me and it took me a while to process.
I just posted the debate on Youtube so you can check it out.
I haven't come across this type of apostasy enough to be familiar with it... that priesthood just isn't a thing. I suppose it makes sense why that person would be a non-denom pastor. He even used D&C 84 to prove that Joseph Smith could not have possessed the priesthood because D&C says you can't see God without this priesthood. Of course he doesn't have to explain how God would give the first man on Earth the priesthood if you have to possess the priesthood to see God. good times.